Respawns

Mark the date on your calendar---I played three games of winbolo today, all stricts. In any case, if I make a habit of this... one thing, one really big thing I'd like to see fixed are the re-spawns. Now, I appreciate the fact that Elvis doesn't require that you pay the fee for winbolo, I appreciate the fact that he's done all this programming work alone, I appreciate the fact that he doesn't get to visit this place very often, but it would be nice to get input from him on this. I know that there has been plenty of bitching about the respawns, but I'm going to throw in my lot with the bitchers anyway.

Elvis, if you get the chance to read this, a response would be much appreciated. I respect that it's your work and no one can order you to do things with it, but I'd like even a simple "I don't think I'm going to continue work on WinBolo" or "Respawns aren't my top priority right now".

So what can we do to fix it? My idea would be to let game-makers set their own controls for this (as they would set the controls for hidden mines, allowing brains into the game, etc.). The options might be something like:

(a) Normal algorithm.
(b) Players choose their re-spawns after being killed.
(c) Players can build flags on the water, which is where they'll end up when they die. (respawn points, not just any part of the deep ocean)
(d) Players are allowed to specify their preference as to where they are going to re-spawn, which weights the game's decision as to where you'll end up. But you won't be able to get what you want every time.
(e) Completely random.

So add your own ideas, add your bitching, tell me how stupid I am (although I'd much rather keep this topic pretty serious)...

---Nova

Also, what about being able to create respawn points solely for LGMs? Maybe if you could add in just one to the center of a map...

You're singing my song, Nova. :D

It should be clear to many by now that the current respawn design is flawed. However, the lgm respawn seems to work ok, imo.

LGM respawns aren't nearly as much of a problem as tank re-spawns, but if you're playing on a long map like Ktulu or Scepter, it could wind up taking forever to get to your tank. People shouldn't have to stick to short, stubby maps because the tank and LGM re-spawns suck.

I do see how tank respawns could be improved... But the way the tanks respawn is a part of the current version of the game, and good players should learn to adapt to it. If you are playing on a long map where bad respawns matter, then learn to play without dying. No matter what the algorithm is, I can see that for some maps, dying is horribly bad, and thus extra care needs to be taken. Likewise on some maps, losing lgm is horribly bad, so be extra careful there too. A different style may be needed, such as letting a pill/base or two be taken in preference of preserving your life/lgm.

Nova wrote:

Also, what about being able to create respawn points solely for LGMs? Maybe if you could add in just one to the center of a map...

nope... cuz then someone could just sit there and shoot all the LGM's... not a good idea

They respawn as a floating parachute, Jason. You can't kill them at that stage.

And Fermat, I see your points and the 'don't die' argument is the strongest rebuttal put forth for this, but I find myself unwilling to 'adapt' to what I see as an irritating flaw. It's even more of a problem in opens, where you must die for resources in a defensive situation. The current respawn system changes throughout a game as the placements of pills change. It should instead be random, so as to be as fair as possible to everyone.

Not dying is a good plan, but should dying in a game be such a big deal? Sure, we should pay some penalty for dying but spending 30 minutes getting back to your pill-line would be a serious set-back for even great players.

In any case, my idea was to let people have options. If you want to play a game where the algorithm still functions the same, you can do that. Just like if you want to play a game with hidden mines or allowing computer tanks.

I see nothing wrong with dying being a big deal on some maps, same as lgm deaths on some maps. Many of O's maps have a center spawn, and I sure play a different game there, sending my lgm on suicide missions, killing myself to sweep a pill knowing I'll center respawn a few seconds later, etc.

I certainly have agreed that there is room for improvement in the respawning algorithm (having a choice at startup, at least with the option of a random start, would certainly be cool). But I hardly think it is the big-deal feature that is going to bring everyone back into bolo.

Now... Log viewer on the other hand... :)

Acro wrote:

They respawn as a floating parachute, Jason. You can't kill them at that stage.

Why didn't anyone tell me about this earlier?

Thanks a lot.

Fermat wrote:

But I hardly think it is the big-deal feature that is going to bring everyone back into bolo.

Agreed, but playing would be much less of a hassle if you didn't have to worry about getting the short end of the stick every time you'd re-spawn.

What really could make things more interesting is an option to random repsawn. In other words you could set an option before starting a game to respawn on any peice of available land anywhere on the map that isn't mined or otherwise occupied by a wall/pill/rubble/etc. This could be hilarious in the other wise monotonous opens with the giant mega base. Imagine spawning in the middle of an enemies mega base. I can't believe too many of you would like this idea but it would be enteraining if nothing else.

-DAllen

Rockin' idea, DAllen.

DAllen, your idea is very funny, but it will encourage to mine all the map and then the only good starting points will be in the "super mega base" ! The games are also too much mined, I don't think that it will be good to encourage more mining ! lol :D

Well, I'm assuming that DAllen meant that you could still re-spawn in regular start positions, but his random idea would pop up every now and then.

Alain wrote:

DAllen, your idea is very funny, but it will encourage to mine all the map and then the only good starting points will be in the "super mega base" ! The games are also too much mined, I don't think that it will be good to encourage more mining ! lol :D

That's a really good point. If that happens then you could set it to randomly spawn in the shallow water in a boat where ever the land used to be if there are too many mines and other garbage on the map.

Can you even imagine popping up right behind your enemies pill line in an open? Hilarious.

-DAllen

Sure DAllen, it will be very funny !!! :D

A'ight, folks, let's keep this going.

What we really need is some input from elvis.

(Get out the porn and dynamite)



I don't like Dallen's idea, but rather I like just straight up randomness, which I already wrote my own topic on.

Once again, what I'm hoping for is a feature that'll allow game-starters to pick the re-spawning method, complete randomness included.

Let's try and get a response from Elvis before we let this sink to the bottom, folks.

Feel free to post, people... *sigh*

Some possibilites:

1) He has his own list of WinBolo updates
2) This is already addressed in a future version of WinBolo.

As with most programs (and when Min has mentioned before here) issues are addressed as they are received but implemented down the road as they're added to a "todo" list. Unless its major you wont see something you want for a few more versions, even if Elvis says he'll add it.

Like when you call into a radio station to request a song, they tell you they will play it while adding it to (usually) the end of the playlist.

Nova wrote:

Let's try and get a response from Elvis before we let this sink to the bottom, folks.

Too late, FI is already posting.

CF